Episode 8

In this episode Michelle and Jeff talk with Amber Hinds of Equalize Digital about accessibility, the Accessibility Checker plugin, and how NASA is involved in it. Intrigued? So were we!

Mentioned in this episode:

• Equalize Digital
• Accessibility Checker
• NASA
• WP Accessibility Day
• WordPress Accessibility Meetup
• Amber Hinds on Twitter/X
• Amber Hinds on LinkedIn
• Amber Hinds on Mastodon

Episode Transcript

[00:00:02] Michelle: Welcome to WP Constellations, a podcast exploration of the WordPress universe. Brought to you by StellarWP.

Welcome to WP Constellations. Your StellarWP exploration of the WordPress Universe, which is in our intro. And I like that. I love the fact that it’s not just about us. It’s about the whole WordPress community. First, let me welcome my co host, Jeff. How are you today?

[00:00:32] Jeff: I am doing excellent. The weather is crisp. It’s cool. Fall is on the horizon. In fact, you can kind of say it’s here already.

[00:00:41] Michelle: Yeah, for sure. I still have my air conditioning on during the day and then my heat on at night, and I just feel like my father’s probably rolling over in his grave, like, watching my thermostat from afar. But it is that time of year. But we are joined today by not only a WordPress community person, but a friend of mine, Amber Hinds from Equalize Digital. Amber, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here with us today.

[00:01:06] Amber: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be on with you both.

[00:01:09] Michelle: Yeah, we’re excited to have you here. You do so much in the accessibility space, not just for yourself and for your customers, but you have done so much in the accessibility space for all of WordPress with the meetups that you have introducing people.

You and Alex have done a review (embarrassingly) of one of my websites, actually. I say embarrassing when you are looking at accessibility on your own site and you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re a little bit like the ostrich with its head in the sand. Like, you don’t know what you don’t know until you pick your head up and look around and you hear other people. So while it is embarrassing, it’s also incredibly empowering, because knowing what’s wrong means that you can do better, and that’s a really good thing. So thank you for the work that you do.

[00:01:58] Amber: Well, you’re welcome. I will say I think we’re all kind of there because I use that ostrich analogy all the time to talk about me and full site editing.

I only just tried 2023, like, two or three weeks before working with us, and we’re about to release 2024, and I was just like, how do I edit the NAV menu? Oh, now I know why people complained about this about a year ago, and I refuse to try it. And now I’m trying. I’m like, no classic WordPress for me.

[00:02:29] Michelle: Exactly.

[00:02:30] Amber: It’s hard when you’ve been doing things one way, right, to learn. But it’s good to get open to new things or sort of realize that there can be different or better ways to do. Just because you’ve been doing it one way forever doesn’t always mean it’s the best way.

[00:02:47] Michelle: Exactly. And it’s not easy because change is hard, man. Change is hard.

But for those people who are listening, who aren’t acquainted with who you are, just take a second and tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do with WordPress.

[00:03:02] Amber: Sure. So I’m the CEO of Equalize Digital, which is a certified B corporation focused on WordPress accessibility.

We have a plugin called Accessibility Checker, which is an auditing tool, sort of like an SEO plugin that scans your content and tells you what you can do better. Only focused on making content and code on websites work for people with disabilities. And then, as you mentioned, I also am pretty involved in the community. I’d say I’m Accessibility Team Light because I’m not a developer. But I do support the devs on the Accessibility Team for Make WordPress, and I also run the official WordPress Accessibility Meetup and am a lead organizer, one of the lead organizers for the WordPress Accessibility Day conference.

[00:03:55] Michelle: I think you can remove the Word Light from that because you don’t have to know code to be such a strong proponent for accessibility in the WordPress space. So, yeah, I would say you’re all in there. I don’t want to say heavy because that sounds like the wrong word too, but opposite of whatever Accessibility Light is.

[00:04:17] Amber: I cheer them on.

[00:04:18] Michelle: There you go. I love it. You tell them, this isn’t quite working the way I want it to.

[00:04:25] Amber: For real. I cannot submit PRS, but I can open track tickets. And that is also a very important role in the WordPress community.

[00:04:33] Michelle: Absolutely. It takes more than coders to make this world go around, that’s for sure. But you mentioned Accessibility Checker, so tell us a little bit more about what it is and how it works.

[00:04:43] Amber: Sure.

Basically, we have a free and a paid version of Accessibility Checker. And the free version, you mostly interact with it on your post or page, edit screens or on the front end where you can view it. And what it does is every time you save a post. So whether that is save, draft, publish, or update, it gets all the HTML and CSS for the page, and it runs, I don’t even remember our number of checks, but we’re going to say more than 40 checks. A lot. It’s a lot of best practices. Yes. And we have them tagged as either errors or warnings. Errors are things that we definitely know are a problem. Warnings are things like, hey, this might need a human to look at it. Because what is important to understand about accessibility is that automated tools can’t find everything.

And we’re very clear about that. We really want people to use our tool because you can learn a lot about accessibility with it. And we put a lot of time into our documentation so that if a problem is flagged and you’re not sure what it means or why it matters, you can go read that or how to get some ideas on how you might fix it.

But that said, we also hope that our tool is part of a broader set that people do with doing some manual testing as well. But it can really speed things up because there are definitely problems that can be found automatically. Like, for example, headings out of order or links that have ambiguous text that doesn’t have meaning, like the word “here,” for example, or images missing alt text. And if you have a website with even hundreds of thousands of pages, having to have a human go look at whether every image on every page has alt text could take a lot of time. Whereas our tool can just scan it and be like, okay, here’s all the pages and all the images on those pages that don’t have alt text, and then you can decide if they should have alt text or not. So we really think of it as a way for people to learn about accessibility and speed up their manual accessibility testing.

[00:06:55] Michelle: It’s phenomenal. I have purchased your accessibility checker. I have installed it on a website, and then I have wept over how much work there is to be done. I kid a little, but I love though, that you said so some of it’s like warnings, some of it’s like, yeah, you really need to fix this, and that kind of stuff, because I did look at some of the warnings and went, no, actually, this is okay, I’m going to leave this. But the ones that are like, fix this, fix this, fix this, it’s like, oh, let me fix that right away. Right? So it makes a big difference and go back to “you don’t know what you don’t know,” but the accessibility checker tells you what you don’t know so that then you can do better.

[00:07:36] Amber: Yeah, we actually have a testimonial that someone wrote first, or a review, I guess, on WordPress.org. If you go back through I laughed so hard when I saw it, but it essentially says that this plugin will make you realize how crappy your premium theme and plugins are. And I was like, we’re not meaning to make other things look bad.

[00:07:57] Michelle: Oh my gosh.

[00:07:58] Amber: Using good HTML code is really important.

[00:08:03] Michelle: Yeah.

Over the years, we learn about what makes good accessibility. So the first thing that was really kind of pounded into me is make sure at the very least you have alt text on your images. And so I alt texted everything and then like, oh, but not on every image. We don’t care about things that are ornamental. Oh, okay, let me go back and fix that. And so some of that is also good to learn. And that’s what the nice thing about the Accessibility Checker is, so that if you have maybe no alt text on an image, you can learn how to set that to not be seen by a screen reader. And that’s something that I’ve learned how to do recently, too. Like, if it’s purely ornamental, don’t make the screen reader read the file name. Especially if the file name is just a series of a string of letters and numbers. Right. So there’s so much to learn, and I appreciate that. The Accessibility Checker is helping me learn that as well. So that’s pretty cool.

Yeah, for sure. Now the next question I have for you and then I’m going to turn things over to Jeff for some more questions. But the next question I have for you is right before WordCamp US this year, there was this huge announcement about the small organization that was funding the development of the front end highlighting feature for the Accessibility Checker. I think it was called NASA. NASA, yeah, that was it.

[00:09:18] Amber: Small organization.

[00:09:20] Michelle: Oh my gosh, how exciting. First of all, I don’t know how you kept that under your hat for as long as you did because obviously non disclosures and all of those things, but that had to be so hard. And thank goodness you and your husband are in business together because you can discuss this at least at home.

[00:09:36] Amber: I will admit I told my mom about the NASA contract as soon as it got signed, even though I was not supposed to, but I was like, I’m going to tell my mom. Yeah, you can’t go to school and tell people because I don’t know what their parents do.

[00:09:55] Michelle: Right, exactly. But yeah, moms are okay. I tell my mom stuff too. But yeah, tell us about how that even came about because that’s, like, super exciting.

[00:10:04] Amber: Yeah. So that actually came about through a friendship that I have developed with JJ Toothman, who’s at Lone Rock Point. They’re the team that is developing the NASA website. And he got to know me through WPCampus, which is a WordPress community for higher ed. And I organized WPCampus 2021. During COVID It was online, the event that year. I was an organizer.

And so he reached out to me and said that they were going through the process of trying to choose the CMS for the new NASA site because it was not set in stone that it was going to be WordPress. And one of the reasons that NASA selected WordPress was because of our plugin, which was super exciting. He sent me this whole demo video that he had made for it for NASA when they were trying to so that was very neat. And I know NASA really wanted to have something that provided more guidance for their content creators and their content team. Because the thing that’s important to know about accessibility is that it’s not just a one time thing. In many ways, like I mentioned before, SEO plugins, it’s very like SEO, you don’t ever say, okay, my website’s searching optimized, I’m done. Who cares what Google does?

It’s an ongoing practice, and accessibility is really the same way. So even though JJ’s team is working to build accessible components for that NASA website, if the content creators don’t use them in an accessible way, they’re forgetting the alt text or they’re writing read more and linking that all over the place, then the website could end up being not accessible at all.

They liked that our tool provides that guidance. It’s a tool that you keep on the site for the entire life of the website. It’s not just a developer tool.

And so they started using it, and then we got some feedback from users at NASA that it was hard because our original, and we knew this, but our original reports are on the back end. They really just show here’s the HTML snippet. And for someone who is not familiar with HTML at all, even a heading tag, which is pretty basic, like H4, some text and another H4, we’re all like, oh, we know what that is. But they’re like, I don’t understand.

And then they have to go maybe try and find it on the page. And if you’re coming in and editing someone else’s work because they have a lot of collaborative content at NASA you’re not familiar with, oh, well, this string of text is up here, and some of those pages are very deep, and they have tabs and they have a lot of different stuff. So it’s not like even in the block editor, the content readily visible.

So they came to us and they said that they wanted us to work with them to create something for Accessibility Checker that allowed users to view the issues that Accessibility Checker finds on the front end of the website.

And so they funded the development of that feature. So we built it and they helped us cover the cost for that. And so it was very exciting and it was very hard not to tell everyone.

[00:13:20] Michelle: I can only imagine. I can only imagine. Absolutely. No, it’s super exciting. And when I think back to learning, just and I will be honest, a lot of what I’ve learned, I’ve learned from you and from Alex Stine over the last two years about accessibility.

And for those of you who are listening and don’t know, Alex Stine is a blind man who does a lot in WordPress to teach people about accessibility. And so between the two of you, I have learned so much like you and I sitting next to each other at WordCamp Phoenix. You taught me something in Twitter, I guess, X now, about how to be prompted to add alt text, for example, to whatever you’re posting.

And so it’s amazing. And then when you create tools like this, what I think is important about NASA funding, this is like you say, we could tell people, we could give them an index, we could give them tools, but unless you know how to use them, unless you learn how to use them, what does that mean? Don’t just say read more, read or click here, or whatever, those kinds of things, they won’t know. But to give them tools and teach them how to use them. And that’s what the Accessibility Checker does. I think it’s really empowering to see those changes. So super exciting and all the congratulations about that, for sure.

[00:14:35] Amber: Thank you.

[00:14:36] Michelle: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:41] Jeff: Is the Accessibility Checker plugin, is it just like having Amber Hinds in my dashboard and you’re just guiding me to know how to do proper accessibility?

[00:14:51] Amber: A little bit, I guess. I don’t know, it’s not my voice. Maybe at some point we can have recorded alerts, although it might be nicer than I might be at some points.

[00:15:05] Jeff: I love how you said that accessibility is like SEO, because every time we go into that post editor to create a new piece of content, accessibility has to find its way in there. And in a perfect world, accessibility comes first above all else. But unfortunately, that’s not usually the case. And a lot of people look at accessibility as too much, cost too much, work too much. There’s no benefit to it. But as we’ve seen in recent years, there’s some very expensive lawsuits that have gone the way of websites and companies not being accessible.

[00:15:43] Amber: Yeah, no, I will say there’s a benefit. I’ve seen a big shift over the past two or three years where more organizations, even for profit companies, are aware of accessibility and are prioritizing it more at the enterprise level than I would say, small businesses. Small businesses are frequently behind on but they’re behind on a lot of marketing stuff, primarily because of budget and time, and everybody wears lots of hats when you own a small business.

But I know in the European Union, the European Accessibility Act is going to start enforcement in June of 2025. And so that’s a cliff that’s coming that’s going to require businesses, not just government agencies. A lot of the laws up until now have been government agencies here in the United States, the Justice Department has really started cracking down in the last year on businesses under the Americans with Disabilities Act. And they are actually doing, like, taking them and making them.

Basically, they’re getting sued by the Justice Department, and they have to make their website accessible under the ADA in the United States. Part of how it’s enforced is that people with disabilities have to sue. That’s an unfortunate way that the Americans with Disabilities Act was written. So the government can’t find a business, a person with disabilities, which is not great. You shouldn’t really put the onus on the person with disabilities to have to ask for access.

I think that there are some better laws that I would love to see us transition to. So, like, in Ontario, for example, in Canada, they have a law that requires organizations to have accessible websites that meet certain Web Content Accessibility Guidelines standards, because that’s sort of the measurable standard that a lot of laws reference. And they actually have the ability to fine. It’s $100,000 per day to businesses and $50,000 per day to leadership at the businesses. So board members, executive leadership can also get fined and they have a mandate. Every couple of years, any business with more than 25 employees has to submit a report on their website accessibility to the provincial government.

And so I think that is better because it’s not really saying that people with disabilities have to enforce the law, it’s saying that the government is going to enforce the law. And I think that’s probably a direction that we’re going to see happening more and more in the future.

[00:18:25] Jeff: So what businesses need to realize is that hosting and managing non accessible websites is expensive. And if it’s not, it will be in some form or know a couple of years ago oh, go ahead.

[00:18:40] Amber: Oh, I was just going to add on. Like in the United States we’re saying you can’t get fined, but you can get sued. And the thing that businesses don’t always realize is that just because you got sued once, it doesn’t mean you can’t get sued more than like there have been multiple businesses who are still in the process of a first lawsuit and then they get a second time too.

[00:19:01] Jeff: Yes.

So I know a few years ago there was a massive accessibility audit that was performed on Gutenberg at the time and a number of years have gone by and I just kind of wonder what is your opinion of the current state of accessibility? Not really so much in the block editor, but maybe in WordPress in general and its third party ecosystem.

[00:19:25] Amber: Yeah, so I’ve had a lot of conversations with other people on the Core Accessibility Team about this. I think in general, in WordPress itself, we’re probably right now getting back to the state of accessibility that we were at in 2018 because Gutenberg set it back so far, that audit, which was funded by WPCampus or almost all of the issues that were flagged in that have been resolved now, which is really good. But that said, Gutenberg itself is still largely unusable except for very experienced screen reader users. So like Alex can use Gutenberg, but he doesn’t like to. I have another friend, Raghavendra, who is in India and he is also blind and he does a lot with the WordPress community out there and he edits posts in the block editor and is fine with it. But he has to figure out certain workarounds and there are challenges and occasionally he has a sighted assistant who will help him with his posts, which is not ideal. And if we’re thinking about the goal of WordPress is to democratize publishing, we cannot leave people with disabilities behind. And that is one of the biggest things that I think I really would love to see in Gutenberg and full site editing especially. We started out talking about me burying my head in the sand with full site editing. But part of that is there have been even typically able people who have found that difficult to use. And so then if you put in accessibility problems, and the fact that this came up at the Community Summit and before WordCamp US that there are a lot of features that are just getting released without accessibility even being brought in. I even had a conversation in Make WordPress slack because 2024 was designed with all of these decorative asterisks and then they’re building it out and we started opening GitHub issues for them and they were just using like an asterisk. So on a screen reader you just hear like asterisks and then like a heading asterisk and then a paragraph asterisk, but that really should have actually been looked at on the design. And I asked them, I was like, can I go on the Figma file and write comments? They’re like, no. The dev team won’t pay attention though, but it’s like, I am offering to provide you guidance on how you could build this thing before you even have to build it, which would save time. So I think there’s this overall lack of education on how to best incorporate accessibility that we need to address within the community, I think the general state, and this is a frustration circling back to that conversation about how our plugin will make you think all of your other plugins suck.

Generally, I think a lot of plugin developers just don’t know. And it’s not that they have mal intent, but they don’t have the training or the education. A lot of us are self taught. When I was first learning PHP, I just went out and read blogs and if the person who wrote the blog didn’t know anything about accessibility and they wrote a tutorial and I copied and pasted their code, I also didn’t learn anything about accessibility. So I think if we really want WordPress to be able to grow, we have to slow down a little bit. I would love to have some releases that are instead of focused on adding new features that are focused on circling back and improving existing features and figuring out how we can make them more accessible and not just constantly be like, let’s add this new thing. Let’s add this new thing. Let’s add this new thing. Let’s get what we have really good. And I think that would be really important. And then can there be some sort of training or guidance for plugin developers? I would love that.

Had a side conversation on Mastodon with Mika Epstein a couple months ago about how it would be great if plugins that have very large install counts or at some point there’s more detailed automated scanning on those plugins on a regular basis. And then they could get a badge because this would help for security too. Or we could be checking for WordPress coding standards.

Are you escaping HTML? Like things like that, that a checker can find very easily? But accessibility could be some of those things and we could then put a badge, or maybe it’s the opposite maybe it’s a warning right here, automated things that have been found in this code and that might incentivize a developer to then go learn about accessibility. If they’re getting flags on their plugin in the repo, then it might cause accessibility problems, or it might even create a situation where other people get involved and other people learn. And now we start having people submitting pull requests and track tickets to fix, saying, hey, I learned about accessibility and you have this issue in your plugin, and I learned it through Create, this mini community that grows and the knowledge grows outwards. And all the other issues get fixed on all these different plugins just from the sharing of knowledge.

[00:24:42] Amber: When I flag accessibility problems on plugins, generally, I would say most developers are receptive. Sometimes you hit ones where maybe they’re an independent dev and they don’t have a team and they’re also doing client work or it’s just a hobby for them and they’re kind of like, okay, well, I’ll take this under advisement, but I’m probably not going to do it. And that’s kind of disappointing. But even sometimes with some of the independent devs, I feel like they respond really positively.

So it’s really more of a matter of getting them the information because I think developers want their products to be accessible and they want everyone to be able to use them. Nobody wants to hear I installed your plugin, and then I couldn’t even do anything on the settings page, so I just deactivated it. We want people to use our stuff, otherwise we wouldn’t put it out there, right? We just keep it as our own plugin for our sites and not share it with the world.

[00:25:31] Jeff: And the beautiful thing about making your code accessible, friendly or accessible, is that it benefits all.

It benefits abled people, it benefits people with disabilities having accessible code, it benefits everyone. It just makes the product that much better for everyone.

Are there any examples on the web that you’ve come across recently that have impressed you from an accessibility standpoint?

[00:25:58] Amber: I know you told me this right before we got on, and I was like, man, I wish I should have prepared. Recently I was trying to think if I had a really great WordPress example. I think if you go look at some of the more enterprise examples of WordPress, then you’re going to see websites that have had more accessibility effort put into them. Like whitehouse.gov or Harvard’s website is filled with WordPress.

I mean, any university website that’s built with WordPress most often will have had accessibility effort put into it. I was trying to find some examples, of so we’re talking about plugins of a table block, because on the WordPress Accessibility Day website I was putting together the volunteer handbook and I was like, this is so big. We need like a table of contents block that would get all the headings and you could click on them and go and it turned into Alex Stine and I, we just hang out late at night sometimes and so we were like from like eleven until 1:00 a.m we just were live streaming in the WordPress accessibility facebook group to no one. I don’t think anyone was awake, but we were like, let’s do it. And he’s like testing plugins and he cracked me up so much. I had so much fun. I’m just like laughing hysterically, right? But I will shout out the simple table of contents plugin as an example of one, that so we tried a bunch and most of them were really bad.

Really bad, right? Or some of them got kind of close. That one was good, but it had one problem with the accordion. Didn’t have the right ARIA on it for him. But we left that being like, okay, but this is close enough, we could use it, we just won’t turn on the setting. But then I went and I posted on his support forum and the same day the dev released a fix.

So I’ll shout that out as an example. Just recently that popped in my head.

I really appreciated that and I don’t think that’s one that’s owned by a big company, so who knows how that impacted. He took time out of his day to do it right then, so I thought that that was pretty neat.

I think another actual whole website that I’ve noticed that has been putting some effort in is the HubSpot website, which isn’t a WordPress website, but I was looking at their pricing tables. Pricing tables can be really hard to get and feature tables to get accessibility right on. And if you inspect the HTML on theirs, I actually sent it over to someone as an example recently. They’ve done a really good job of each checkmark, has hidden screen reader texts that’s included and the X is say not included and that kind of stuff. And it actually is coded as a real table and not like DIVS and stuff. So that’s another example that I can pick on the fly.

[00:28:49] Jeff: Before I turn you back over to Michelle, I want to say thank you very much for being a friend of The Events Calendar.

We very much value your feedback. We have a lot of work to do on our products, within under the Stellar umbrella when it comes to accessibility, but we want to thank you very much for contributing and helping us raise the accessibility levels of our products.

[00:29:11] Amber: Yeah, well, I appreciate that you all and I know this is like going to be a sidekick, but I owe you guys more feedback because there’s something in The Events Calendar slack that I need to go respond to and retest. But I very much appreciate you all putting effort into that. We use the events calendar on our website and on almost all of our clients’ websites and yeah, the backstory for people listening to this episode was that we’re remediating a community college website that’s under mandated remediation with the Department of Education, and they had some custom built event calendar that was just not good from an accessibility standpoint, but also not super functional. I was like, you just need to use The Events Calendar. But then of course, we had to audit it and you guys are very receptive to all of my feedback. So it was nice because they’re excited about the better usability in the editor for them and being able to import events and stuff they couldn’t do. And then I appreciate that you’ve been responsive on improving it.

[00:30:14] Michelle: It’s one more testimony to the fact that the work is never done and we have to continually strive to continue to improve. For sure. Absolutely.

One thing we didn’t talk about or put in the notes, even for you, is by the time this airs, we will already be on the other side of this year’s Accessibility Day. But talk just briefly, because we are running out of time, but talk a little bit briefly about WP Accessibility Day, what it is, and what people can look forward to. Hopefully it’s going to be an annual event that’s been, I think, two years now or three.

[00:30:46] Amber: This will be our third year.

[00:30:48] Michelle: Yeah. And so I’m going to count on it being here again next year. What can people look forward to learning at something like WP Accessibility Day?

[00:30:58] Amber: Yeah. So WordPress Accessibility Day is a 24 hour conference. It has a single track, and it’s all focused on accessibility and WordPress. Some of the talks are universal, and they would apply to non WordPress websites as well. You can catch past recordings on our YouTube channel, or if you go to WPAccessibility.Day and you go to the events tab, then you can find links to all the archived websites. So depending on when this comes out, we may have all of the recordings with captions and full transcripts available on the 2023 website.

It is a nonprofit. That was a big thing that we worked on this year. We were really excited last year. We just ran it through my business, but we were like, we want to make this a little bit more official. And yes, hopefully set it up in a way that it can continue for a long time, even if us organizers decide we need to take a break, which, don’t worry, we won’t be next year.

But yes, so it’s a nonprofit organization and also we pay our speakers. So next year, if you’re interested in accessibility and you want to share your accessibility journey or something you’ve learned, because you don’t have to be someone who’s done accessibility for a really long time. We love hearing from people that are just getting started or sharing their stories, and we pay speakers.

[00:32:20] Michelle: So apply to talk next year at WP Accessibility Day. And I assume then that the last two years are also up there for people to go ahead and listen to. And it is an online event, so you don’t have to travel anywhere to be there. It is fully accessible from wherever you are, which I think is important as well.

What else would you like to share with our audience before we get into the nitty gritty of how to get in touch with you? Is there anything that we’ve missed that you wanted to tell us about?

[00:32:47] Amber: Well, the WordPress Accessibility Team can always use, especially developers, but anyone – testers and developers to submit patches. So if you’re interested in that, the meetings are on Friday. I’m in Central Time. So I always think about it in Central Time. And the meetings are every other Friday at 11:00 a.m. Central, and every Friday at 10:00 a.m. Central. There is a bug scrub, so definitely come for that as well.

[00:33:17] Michelle: And you don’t have to be a coder to learn how to contribute there. For sure, I’m sure.

Very good. So how can people find out more about Accessibility Checker, next year’s accessibility Day. And where do we find Amber Hinds in case people have questions and want to follow up with you?

[00:33:33] Amber: Yep. So our website is equalizedigital.com.

Oh, I didn’t mention also the Meetup, so we also have recordings for that. So if you go to Equalizedigital.com Meetup, you can see upcoming WordPress Accessibility Meetups, which are on Zoom twice a month, one in the morning and one in the evening. So they sort of catch different parts of the world. And I am most active on, I’m still calling it Twitter, but I’m also on LinkedIn. I’m at HeyAmberHinds on Twitter. Amber Hinds at, like, Fostodon or something on Mastodon. And then Amber Hinds on LinkedIn.

[00:34:12] Michelle: And if you want to be able to find those links, just go to our website, stellarwp.com/podcast and find this show. We will have all of those links in the show notes so you don’t have to remember what Amber said. And we’ll share all those links so that you can find all of the things that we’ve talked about in today’s episode. So, Amber, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time to share with us. I know you’re a busy person, especially with like, NASA in the mix right now.

And yes, it’s super exciting to talk about big projects like NASA, but to remind people that it’s just as important on your blog or your small site to have accessibility there as well, because accessibility should be for everybody. So thank you for taking the time to spend some time with us today, and we look forward to seeing you at whatever events we’ll run into and our paths will cross next. And just thank you for so much for being part of StellarWP WP Constellations. Thank you, Jeff. And we’ll see everybody on the next episode. Until then, be accessible.

Bye.

WP Constellations is a production of StellarWP, home of The Events Calendar, LearnDash, GiveWP, Kadence, Iconic, SolidWP, Orderable, and Restrict Content Pro. Learn more about the StellarVerse at stellarwp.com.